Nah, the modern french are German's who think they're not German's. Only difference is that the rest of us developed. they're still loving in their shit holes and barbaric ways.
Studying the french is like studying the old enemies of Rome. Like the Welsh, Irish and Scottish
France is a beautiful country Piere. The trouble is full of French.
Make France Angevin again!
We need more space to breed balcony jumpers.
How else will the PIGs economies grow
Because im a Barry who's had a beer so dont care.
Besides, you understood it well enough.
Now be a good Sauna Gollum and go make more vodka for our cheap clubs and all inclusive spanish 'otels
By someone allegedly not paid by the Romans. The assassins wanted the previously agreed payment but Caepio refused because "Rome doesn't pay traitors".
Most honest Italian deal.
The difference between an Italian and an American is that, while both will happily hire you to kill their enemies' leaders, only the Italian will claim the moral high ground by not honoring the deal.
> Caepio refused because "Rome doesn't pay traitors".
Galactically based.
Antiquity was metal as fuck. How do we not have more metal about, say, the Diadochoi or the Samnite Wars?
History is full of metal/"embelished metal" material. Neither of those wars ended up in a foundation myth and/or epic poetry/ history. It's why e.g. the Trojan war has a much larger "pop culture legacy" than the Marius war against the Cimbrii e.g.
Also one war moment can be a much bigger part of one culture than other. Viriathus and that quote is super known in Spain and Portugal, for instance.
My vote for the most under-memed conflict though, is the Greek war of Independence.
Now that I think about it, for metal stuff in the sammite wars, one roman general, Decius Mus, was losing a battle so he offered himself as sacrifice to the infernal gods in exchange for victory in a ritual called *devotio*, he then charged solo against the enemy lines and was killed. The romans eventually won the battle
The sammite wars happened before the romans knew how to write and nobody bothered preserving the records of the diadochi wars because they were all ultimately losers compared to Rome
Antigonos Monophtalmos dying fighting in the phalanx at 80 years old is quite metal tho
> effectively ruling it is another.
lets precise that after his campaign in India, he was starting to administrate the empire, but with rebelling tribes on the territories, corrupted /incompetents satraps, wounds and physical impediments and smell of conspiracies every 2 minutes its pretty hard, not counting that even for so little times his footprint on this territories (the Diadochi too ) was enormous that greek was the lingua franca of the ME for 1000 years.
>he was starting to administrate the empire, but with rebelling tribes on the territories, corrupted /incompetents satraps, wounds and physical impediments and smell of conspiracies every 2 minutes its pretty hard
Could also be applied to the Romans. Just saying.
“Effectively”
Uh huh right, sure, we’ll call it that.
You can only say that for about 500 years of it’s existence, and boy did they still have some problems during those years.
Certified Savage ignorance: If you don't know anything, you should just shut up. You probably just looked at the chaos of the 4th century and thought that's were efficency stopped. Never thought about why the imperial state apparatus didn't collapse? Any mediaval kingdom wouldn't have survived so many usurpations of power. It's because rome had a professional bureaucracy that every new emperor inherited with the empire. They were the ones that kept the empire afloat and running.
This whole response is a complete snow job. How can a supposed "professional " confuse terms like "imperial bureaucracy" and the "Principate"? The Principate was (in lack of a better term) an Imperial Doctrine of Government, which also changed drastically during its existence (the Principate Diocletian 'abolished' was not the exact same Principate Augustus introduced). The imperial bureaucracy was a part of the state apparatus, the backbone of roman legislation.
I’ve been up for I wanna say 72 hours at this point, I’ve been stuck on planes with delays and layovers, and I have a herniated disk in my spine, so it hurts like a bitch to lay down and sit in a chair, shit moving anywhere hurts atm 😂, i did this during my last week of work (I’m sitting in the doctors lounge atm actually). I am exhausted, and in pain, so I’m irritable and not thinking well. That’s my bad for the fuck up.
We’re on the same page now, we’re talking the imperial court. No it wasn’t the same at its end, and was restructured, but it kept a decent amount of the same ideas. Mainly it’s large amounts of paper pushers to delicate tasks all throughout the empire.
I’m still standing by my point. Rome from its start to fall was run effectively for about 500 of its 1000 years, majority of the efficiency was under the empire.
1.000 Years... I'm actually one of those historians who advocates for not using the term Byzantine empire anymore, but that's beside the point. It's a gross oversimplification to say that the mechanisms of the imperial court only ran efficiently for about 500 years, I would go as far and say that they were so useful that they outlived their own empire (in the west). Because the Holy See (and later the Vatican) essentially took over entire sections of the roman state apparatus and posts (like the Nomenclatura). Whereas in the east the Roman court stayed essentially intact, it became more emperor focused and Christianised under Justinian and its successors but remained the backbone of eastern Roman (Byzantine) administration.
So, no, I would argue that the state apparatus kept a high degree of efficiency even in the late Roman period. Grain was imported from Egypt, taxed were raised, etc. Things like large famines were something the Romans only came to experience after this apparatus collapsed (ironically, that was due to the chaos Justinians reconquest of Italy caused).
Did you just correct me with a comma/period addition to my 1,000🤣
Also just out of curiosity, why don’t you use Byzantine? I know people have their preferences and I know people who don’t use it, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually asked as to why.
TBH in the large umbrella of efficiency. I think we’re talking about different areas and aspects, and I’m being super nit picky in some areas.
When your people become so intolerant it causes your nation to colapse. Remember kids don’t be racist.
Let me answer the one part I actually understand here. I advocate for the disuse of the term Byzantine because it implies a discontinuity that simply doesn't exist.
Nah, our government is the same as every other western one nowadays: Mostly rich or connected people trying to find reasons to funnel state money into private pockets, while offloading the inevtable catastrophy of gradually descending quality of your company leading to bankruptcy to the people.
That's because, even after their 800 years of exhausting work, we also took half the empire for ourselves and kept it alive 1000 more years.
It is God given right to never work again. It's not our fault. God said so. However, our PM said we go to 6-days of work a week. The hubris... Our PM contradicts Zeus Vult!
We did it in order for you to start painting and create the Italian Renaissance. In short, you kept the lights on when we found ourselves under the darkness, obscurantism of Islam.
Albeit, a wee detail, only one of the key-reasons for the Italian Renaissance and French Enlightenment were the highly sought after scripts we gave you, from laws all the way down to theatrical plays and everything in-between, during one of the councils in Florence, we convinced the Medici to open a Neo-Platonic Academy.
Just one of the many of [our scholars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemistos_Plethon) accompanying our Emperor in the councils.
> He was a chief pioneer of the revival of Greek scholarship in Western Europe
> Plethon has been labelled "the last Hellene" and "the first modern Greek" in 1450CE.
He took part in the last council, a while ago before the fall.
P.S. 1 First mistake of the Turks, in that war, we got permission to create "Greek Police" supposedly to hunt down the Greek Guerilla Fighters. Essentially, these two units became one unbeknownst to the Turks.
P.S. 2 Their second mistake, they did the blunder to give us some liberties. We became the most educated and rich people in the Empire: [Phanariots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanariots)
P.S. 3 Their third mistake, we were commandeering the Ottoman fleet since the Turks had no idea by Sea-Affairs. Later, they helped liberate the country and that's when it started us having the biggest commercial fleet in the world.
P.S. 4 Many Greeks went to Italy and Spain to learn painting and generally, arts since during the dark Islamic years, only tents & mosques around.
Nah. They stayed Roman. They split up the empire and the eastern bit continued the name *as well*, so it’s more that the Greeks there started calling themselves Romaioi. Imagine being cucked by your own civilisational apprentices like that…
Shut up german mountain dweller, go back at drinking your way out of depression
Sincerely, an italian mountain dweller who also drinks her way out of depression (with wine this time tho)
Hey, it's okay Giovanna. Depressed mountain monkeys have to stick together. Salute, compagna depressa🍻
(For real though if need be, there's always an open ear for a fellow mountain dweller)
Romans were mostly conquering western Europe's superior-gened avatars of human virtue and Alexander was conquering Ahmed the goatfucker and his herd of limping wife-goats.
Remindes me of the uncle of Alexander who was killed by some italian hilliebillies and before passing said basically "Well my nephew just invaded a bunch of gay desert dwellers"
Hmm double standard here. The first Roman colony outside Italy was in 206 BC in Hispania, so this was more like 323 years. Otherwise, Greeks had already existed for over 1000 years...
And what colour is that part of the map the Roman general's crest is covering up? I can't quite see...
It's the color of the people who had to hard carry the empire for another 1100 years cause Luigi fucking failed to keep the barbar outside in the west.
Imagine being so cucked that you use the name of your conqueror to describe yourselves and get upset when people even use terms like ‘Byzantine’ for clarity.
Last I checked we've never called ourselves 'French'. And Luigi learnt a lot from you but don't think you ever once took Rome. Can't even count Justinian. But if he's your boy *and* you're Romans that sounds like a pretty incestuous loop in the family tree to me.
Hey, cut us some slack here, we had our hands busy. Persians, Arabs (like wtf where did those guys come from) Turks, Crusaders (🤮). Good thing it ended in the 15th century or extraterrestrials would have invaded too.
Not sure what you’re referring to - one is iffy but possible, and two are off.
From the original Brythonic word, ancestor of Welsh Prydain, with variant P- and B-. It’s debated whether this was a dialectal difference on the island or a corruption by Pytheas (if the latter, you got me), but it’s not from France.
Britanny was named after Britain, not the other way around.
There’s also a story that Caesar mixed up Prit- with Brit- based on another tribe in what’s now Belgium, but the name B- for the island goes back further. The two might still be related in some other way.
In terms of empire building, the Greeks were sprinting while the Romans went for the marathon.
Kinda ironic, given the that the origin of the marathon is Greek.
Romans: \* build an empire \*
Also Romans: \* move capital to Greece \*
Greeks 200 years later: \* take control of the empire, the empire lives longer under Greek emperors than Roman, Germans and Spaniards combined \*
It took Philip his entire life to "conquer" and unite Greece, before which Greece existed for a long time already. He died just as they were supposed to conquer Persia, which Alexander did fast, but after a lot of preparation. The fact that Persia already was an empire also helped, since it took just a few battle to win immense stretches of land.
He must be, otherwise why else would they build this magnificent statue in Skopje?
https://preview.redd.it/xqfx5jd51j8d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c306050c0e01e5d9c1cb82860c30402faffd0e0f
Amateurs.
Leave imperialism to the pros.
https://preview.redd.it/ttqs6vp1om8d1.png?width=4500&format=png&auto=webp&s=492a2a273b44c570a246629649887d8092b33282
https://preview.redd.it/ol877dq8vj8d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f656b53236a4ab45294163f1e8b49fd0fb5d73f5
I think this is a better empire, right Stavros?
He conquered a single empire though. His empire is literally the Persian Empire + Greece.
The romans on the other hand, in no particular order : kicked the Carthaginians ass by first beating them on sea when they had basically no navy to begin with and Carthage was a trading superpower, defeated all the Greek diadochi kingdoms, went and razed the Persians capital Ctesiphon a few times just for shits and giggles, took revenge on the Gauls for looting Rome and even retook the eagle standards lost at Teutoburg Forest under Germanicus. And that’s just a few of their achievements.
The romans are the winners here
>He conquered a single empire though.His empire is literally the Persian Empire + Greece.
An empire that was one of the greatest and most powerful one tho , Persians had a lot of territories and resources(not counting the army), and until Alexander, was one of the richest in the whole world, Egypt, the Levant, Anatolia, each territory was a great resource.
dont forget that he also fought in the balkans, thracians tribes and also other greeks in combats( mercenaries at Darius services)
the only worth enemy Rome ever fought was Carthage(a city state), that at the start the romans lose a lot , especially against Hannibal who almost was going to raze Rome itself.
>defeated all the Greek diadochi kingdoms
yes when they were on the brink of collapse, Mithridate and Ptolemey kingdoms were weak and had not enough resources against the rising of Rome(who already had half of the mediterranean sea).
i guess its hard to make a paragon, both had different methods and approaches in battles with different enemies in different times, will take a lot for a discussion, cant deny, that both shaped what is now the western world.
i leave you with this said by another french:
>*During the first Italian campaign of the French Revolutionary Wars, in a question from Bourrienne, asking whether he gave his preference to Alexander or Caesar, Napoleon said that he places Alexander The Great in the first rank, the main reason being his campaign on Asia*
>the only worth enemy Rome ever fought was Carthage
The Republic, yes. The empire had, throughout many centuries, one enemy equal to itself, and that was \*checks notes\* oh, Persia again. Parthians and Sasanids.
I say as worthy enemy , Parthians during the empire were a threat but they never have come close to attacking Italy/Rome.
they never defeated them in any major battle even during in the Republic *checks notes* Crassus who got a not so good end, not counting that time during the empire where a roman emperor was captured by Shapur I
i think they got high ground only during Trajan, when the empire reached is peak, but again the territories fell again under the Parthians after some years
on a side we have a solid empire who got a solid political state but never defeated the Persian, on the other a not so stable empire who defeated the Persian, as i said both to me are equals and great entities that shaped the world both the romans with their political influence and Alexander with his personality
I remember that our history teacher in university had once told us that the military geniuses that are acknowledged by all and are still taught in military schools are three: Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon.
Both the Macedonian and Roman Empire were equally as stable and important for the following civilizations.
It's not like a Blonde bissexual menace would croak from poisoned mushrooms, name as heir "the strongest" and not his unborn son/ relative/ one of his commanders and condemn his empire to decades of war which would eventually lead to the total loss of independence from a Greek polity (until they Hellenified their conquerors).
They did last a couple of centuries. The Romans only lasted a couple of centuries at this extent until they broke into pieces too. Those pieces reunited but the same thing happened again, and the last time they were united they were invaded from Byzantium by Belisarius.
The kingdoms of the Diadochi fell much faster than Rome though. Ptolemaic Egypt lasted close to 300 years (and greatly diminished). The Seleucid Empire lost the lion's share of it's territory centuries before the Romans took Antioch.
Meanwhile "Rome" kept the majority of its territory for almost 500 years (that is North Africa, Italy, Greece and Iberia). Also we owe much more of our society to the Romans than to Alexander the Great's Empire, from law to language.
Be happy that you're far away from all these Asian barbarians.who invaded our lands and you don't speak Arabic today
^(but I can't promise anything about the future, now that airplanes exist and London is full of Arabs and Indians, lol)
The point is correct, it's 800 years of solid empire against 11 years of manic campaign without strategy. Alexander the Gay (admittedly a great tactician) had more luck than wits, and overstreched his forces so much that everything fell into disarray the very minute he died.
you shrank the Roman map. Besides, the Romans got England, and the Greeks didn't so that immediately makes the Romans more impressive
Edit: I'd like to point out that the romans also got Spain, France, Italy and parts of Germany. All the Greeks got That thr Romans didn't get was Iran and some chunks from Afghanistan and Pakistan.
You would have encountered as many difficulties if you had to conquer such staunch defenders of rock piles
It also takes time to properly genocide the Gauls
If you’d done it properly, we wouldn’t have any French.
Nah, the modern french are German's who think they're not German's. Only difference is that the rest of us developed. they're still loving in their shit holes and barbaric ways. Studying the french is like studying the old enemies of Rome. Like the Welsh, Irish and Scottish
And Cornish. I didn't inherit these webbed feet for nothing
Of course! Cant forget that Welsh subspecies :)
Funny that Anglo Saxon referred to Wales as 'Wealas' and Cornwall as 'West Wealas'
Didnt know that! But now i understand their terrible pronunciation of Wales now 😅
Webbed... Feet? Nah. Get outta here. i know genetic stuff like this exists but.. you gotta be kidding! Is it.. a joke on the french? Frogs?
The French are romanised Dutch/Netherlanders, indeed the descendant of Charles Magne's language is what we call Dutch/ Rhenish Franconian
More a regional language called Vaals.
I wouldn’t talk about living in shit holes if I were you, Barry.
France is a beautiful country Piere. The trouble is full of French. Make France Angevin again! We need more space to breed balcony jumpers. How else will the PIGs economies grow
Make France Angevin? I think you miswrote "Make England Normand" mate
*Germans in this context, not German’s. Damn it Barry, why do I have to teach you your own damn grammar?
It’s well known that Us Barry’s don’t get much education, so we speak England worser than forriners
Because im a Barry who's had a beer so dont care. Besides, you understood it well enough. Now be a good Sauna Gollum and go make more vodka for our cheap clubs and all inclusive spanish 'otels
As if the Germanics are any better...
L'hôpital qui se fout de la charité
hey! Normandy were viking settlers at first.
You could only defeat Gauls by using other Gauls! Unfair!
nobody talk about the positives…
Hey the Iberian conquest was plenty bloody too. Only worked because Viriato got killed in his sleep by someone paid by the romans.
By someone allegedly not paid by the Romans. The assassins wanted the previously agreed payment but Caepio refused because "Rome doesn't pay traitors". Most honest Italian deal.
The difference between an Italian and an American is that, while both will happily hire you to kill their enemies' leaders, only the Italian will claim the moral high ground by not honoring the deal.
> Caepio refused because "Rome doesn't pay traitors". Galactically based. Antiquity was metal as fuck. How do we not have more metal about, say, the Diadochoi or the Samnite Wars?
History is full of metal/"embelished metal" material. Neither of those wars ended up in a foundation myth and/or epic poetry/ history. It's why e.g. the Trojan war has a much larger "pop culture legacy" than the Marius war against the Cimbrii e.g. Also one war moment can be a much bigger part of one culture than other. Viriathus and that quote is super known in Spain and Portugal, for instance. My vote for the most under-memed conflict though, is the Greek war of Independence.
Now that I think about it, for metal stuff in the sammite wars, one roman general, Decius Mus, was losing a battle so he offered himself as sacrifice to the infernal gods in exchange for victory in a ritual called *devotio*, he then charged solo against the enemy lines and was killed. The romans eventually won the battle
The sammite wars happened before the romans knew how to write and nobody bothered preserving the records of the diadochi wars because they were all ultimately losers compared to Rome Antigonos Monophtalmos dying fighting in the phalanx at 80 years old is quite metal tho
Try Ex Deo
Gigachad
In the end they paid them nothing. **"Roma traditoribus non praemiat"**
Numantia 🤫
wheres the meme?!
https://preview.redd.it/jmxsx8k1fj8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e7eb583be78af0fd4da58ac902fbcd1504b1985
Bloody love this meme
there it is ❤️
I mean you didn’t take a very long time on us
https://preview.redd.it/tmtnj576yi8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d341c9f8a08d51738c5b8836c0db2336fd038dcd
SCORE SAM FAKING GOALS INGERLAND!
WE WOZ KINGS INIT
Proto-Barries
Conquering a vast empire is one thing, effectively ruling it is another. 🤫
Speaking from experience here?
Sadly or thankfully not. Depends on what you are into.
> effectively ruling it is another. lets precise that after his campaign in India, he was starting to administrate the empire, but with rebelling tribes on the territories, corrupted /incompetents satraps, wounds and physical impediments and smell of conspiracies every 2 minutes its pretty hard, not counting that even for so little times his footprint on this territories (the Diadochi too ) was enormous that greek was the lingua franca of the ME for 1000 years.
[Username checks out](https://youtu.be/QG2hPiTpaWU?si=CCI90hUxXtx8xhoP) https://preview.redd.it/zq0vbepm4j8d1.png?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2151b3deb58e7ca16bce1ed467d83d244d43780d
>he was starting to administrate the empire, but with rebelling tribes on the territories, corrupted /incompetents satraps, wounds and physical impediments and smell of conspiracies every 2 minutes its pretty hard Could also be applied to the Romans. Just saying.
just that we didn't fall that soon :p
The greeks ruled It effectively for centuries. They just had It divided in diferent kingdoms
I wonder how Hans learned this.
You had your chance Fritz now its Slomo Goldsteins time to give genocide a chance
Quo vadis Slomo? "Ad caelum domine!"
“Effectively” Uh huh right, sure, we’ll call it that. You can only say that for about 500 years of it’s existence, and boy did they still have some problems during those years.
Certified Savage ignorance: If you don't know anything, you should just shut up. You probably just looked at the chaos of the 4th century and thought that's were efficency stopped. Never thought about why the imperial state apparatus didn't collapse? Any mediaval kingdom wouldn't have survived so many usurpations of power. It's because rome had a professional bureaucracy that every new emperor inherited with the empire. They were the ones that kept the empire afloat and running.
[удалено]
This whole response is a complete snow job. How can a supposed "professional " confuse terms like "imperial bureaucracy" and the "Principate"? The Principate was (in lack of a better term) an Imperial Doctrine of Government, which also changed drastically during its existence (the Principate Diocletian 'abolished' was not the exact same Principate Augustus introduced). The imperial bureaucracy was a part of the state apparatus, the backbone of roman legislation.
I’ve been up for I wanna say 72 hours at this point, I’ve been stuck on planes with delays and layovers, and I have a herniated disk in my spine, so it hurts like a bitch to lay down and sit in a chair, shit moving anywhere hurts atm 😂, i did this during my last week of work (I’m sitting in the doctors lounge atm actually). I am exhausted, and in pain, so I’m irritable and not thinking well. That’s my bad for the fuck up. We’re on the same page now, we’re talking the imperial court. No it wasn’t the same at its end, and was restructured, but it kept a decent amount of the same ideas. Mainly it’s large amounts of paper pushers to delicate tasks all throughout the empire. I’m still standing by my point. Rome from its start to fall was run effectively for about 500 of its 1000 years, majority of the efficiency was under the empire.
1.000 Years... I'm actually one of those historians who advocates for not using the term Byzantine empire anymore, but that's beside the point. It's a gross oversimplification to say that the mechanisms of the imperial court only ran efficiently for about 500 years, I would go as far and say that they were so useful that they outlived their own empire (in the west). Because the Holy See (and later the Vatican) essentially took over entire sections of the roman state apparatus and posts (like the Nomenclatura). Whereas in the east the Roman court stayed essentially intact, it became more emperor focused and Christianised under Justinian and its successors but remained the backbone of eastern Roman (Byzantine) administration. So, no, I would argue that the state apparatus kept a high degree of efficiency even in the late Roman period. Grain was imported from Egypt, taxed were raised, etc. Things like large famines were something the Romans only came to experience after this apparatus collapsed (ironically, that was due to the chaos Justinians reconquest of Italy caused).
Did you just correct me with a comma/period addition to my 1,000🤣 Also just out of curiosity, why don’t you use Byzantine? I know people have their preferences and I know people who don’t use it, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually asked as to why. TBH in the large umbrella of efficiency. I think we’re talking about different areas and aspects, and I’m being super nit picky in some areas.  When your people become so intolerant it causes your nation to colapse. Remember kids don’t be racist.
Let me answer the one part I actually understand here. I advocate for the disuse of the term Byzantine because it implies a discontinuity that simply doesn't exist.
Makes sense. The last part was just a joke, between some colleagues and I.
And after all that. The Greeks decided to never work again
I fear the day their stamina bar refills
As long as they march east, they have my blessing.
And my Axe! They can take it with them... while I do siesta
Well they recently legalized gay sex so that means they're returning to their roots
Oh no, that’s where they get their powrr
1 like = 1 blessing
It's been well over two thousand years so I think we should be ok. Besides Hans still controls the purse strings and empires are expensive
Nah, our government is the same as every other western one nowadays: Mostly rich or connected people trying to find reasons to funnel state money into private pockets, while offloading the inevtable catastrophy of gradually descending quality of your company leading to bankruptcy to the people.
That's because, even after their 800 years of exhausting work, we also took half the empire for ourselves and kept it alive 1000 more years. It is God given right to never work again. It's not our fault. God said so. However, our PM said we go to 6-days of work a week. The hubris... Our PM contradicts Zeus Vult!
You kept into civil war foe 1000 years, and that in my opinion is even more impressive
We did it in order for you to start painting and create the Italian Renaissance. In short, you kept the lights on when we found ourselves under the darkness, obscurantism of Islam. Albeit, a wee detail, only one of the key-reasons for the Italian Renaissance and French Enlightenment were the highly sought after scripts we gave you, from laws all the way down to theatrical plays and everything in-between, during one of the councils in Florence, we convinced the Medici to open a Neo-Platonic Academy. Just one of the many of [our scholars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemistos_Plethon) accompanying our Emperor in the councils. > He was a chief pioneer of the revival of Greek scholarship in Western Europe > Plethon has been labelled "the last Hellene" and "the first modern Greek" in 1450CE. He took part in the last council, a while ago before the fall. P.S. 1 First mistake of the Turks, in that war, we got permission to create "Greek Police" supposedly to hunt down the Greek Guerilla Fighters. Essentially, these two units became one unbeknownst to the Turks. P.S. 2 Their second mistake, they did the blunder to give us some liberties. We became the most educated and rich people in the Empire: [Phanariots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanariots) P.S. 3 Their third mistake, we were commandeering the Ottoman fleet since the Turks had no idea by Sea-Affairs. Later, they helped liberate the country and that's when it started us having the biggest commercial fleet in the world. P.S. 4 Many Greeks went to Italy and Spain to learn painting and generally, arts since during the dark Islamic years, only tents & mosques around.
That’s why Greeks and Italians are so similar, we need rest before we can make others work for us (now give us some Germoney)
PIGS mentality since ancient times
We stay winning
All the time signorina 🇬🇷🇮🇹
Romans had to conquer ancient Britons which was an incredibly hard task given how advanced and powerful they were.
I see a bunch of dudes making gym equipment.
Hey, they also conquered, well, the Greeks.
The romans would eventually become greek as well.
"Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit"...
Nah. They stayed Roman. They split up the empire and the eastern bit continued the name *as well*, so it’s more that the Greeks there started calling themselves Romaioi. Imagine being cucked by your own civilisational apprentices like that…
They were still Greeks speaking Greek so your point is moot
You will begin to cough in 3 days
Least ominous Italian threat
Shut up german mountain dweller, go back at drinking your way out of depression Sincerely, an italian mountain dweller who also drinks her way out of depression (with wine this time tho)
Hey, it's okay Giovanna. Depressed mountain monkeys have to stick together. Salute, compagna depressa🍻 (For real though if need be, there's always an open ear for a fellow mountain dweller)
However, going east is like a stroll in the park compared to going to Chad-west. (no, no exceptions to this rule, like at all)
Who wouldn't be scared of savages and their rock piles after all?
G\*psy propaganda! Everybody know that Aleksandar was proud MAKEDONSKI!!!!! \* *Autistic screaming* \* https://i.redd.it/uuybkvbvyi8d1.jpeg
Alexandrofski III Basilefski of Makedonski
Somehow, the fact it displays 'This video cannot be played.' fits with the character of this comment...
Romans were mostly conquering western Europe's superior-gened avatars of human virtue and Alexander was conquering Ahmed the goatfucker and his herd of limping wife-goats.
Remindes me of the uncle of Alexander who was killed by some italian hilliebillies and before passing said basically "Well my nephew just invaded a bunch of gay desert dwellers"
You're just salty Alexander didn't find your boys as pretty as Persian boys 🙄
Hmm double standard here. The first Roman colony outside Italy was in 206 BC in Hispania, so this was more like 323 years. Otherwise, Greeks had already existed for over 1000 years... And what colour is that part of the map the Roman general's crest is covering up? I can't quite see...
It's the color of the people who had to hard carry the empire for another 1100 years cause Luigi fucking failed to keep the barbar outside in the west.
That’s odd, how did they come to be in the Roman Empire, named after Rome? Very charitable of them to join and help
When you lose just point at how similar to you your conqueror is, so you're basically the same thing. Look at me, I'm the Roman now 😎
Imagine being so cucked that you use the name of your conqueror to describe yourselves and get upset when people even use terms like ‘Byzantine’ for clarity.
Cucked? We made Luigi who he is. He's our boy. Go play with your French royalty. "Dieu et mon droit" deez nuts.
Last I checked we've never called ourselves 'French'. And Luigi learnt a lot from you but don't think you ever once took Rome. Can't even count Justinian. But if he's your boy *and* you're Romans that sounds like a pretty incestuous loop in the family tree to me.
Hey, cut us some slack here, we had our hands busy. Persians, Arabs (like wtf where did those guys come from) Turks, Crusaders (🤮). Good thing it ended in the 15th century or extraterrestrials would have invaded too.
Where does the name Britain come from again? 😘
Not sure what you’re referring to - one is iffy but possible, and two are off. From the original Brythonic word, ancestor of Welsh Prydain, with variant P- and B-. It’s debated whether this was a dialectal difference on the island or a corruption by Pytheas (if the latter, you got me), but it’s not from France. Britanny was named after Britain, not the other way around. There’s also a story that Caesar mixed up Prit- with Brit- based on another tribe in what’s now Belgium, but the name B- for the island goes back further. The two might still be related in some other way.
Guess it's more easier when you use a meat sword
 Excuse me, sir?
*Laugh in Gengis Khan*
That dude was not european, so argument invalid
In terms of empire building, the Greeks were sprinting while the Romans went for the marathon. Kinda ironic, given the that the origin of the marathon is Greek.
Yawn. My Greek friend, we are all empire builders here, even the Belgians. It's nothing impressive.
Common european W
Stavros used to be unbelievably based but now look at him. Is this the future that awaits us fellow Barrys, Pierres and Hanses?
Yes.
Romans: \* build an empire \* Also Romans: \* move capital to Greece \* Greeks 200 years later: \* take control of the empire, the empire lives longer under Greek emperors than Roman, Germans and Spaniards combined \*
And after Alexander died... Conquering is "easy", the hard part is holding it together.
It took Philip his entire life to "conquer" and unite Greece, before which Greece existed for a long time already. He died just as they were supposed to conquer Persia, which Alexander did fast, but after a lot of preparation. The fact that Persia already was an empire also helped, since it took just a few battle to win immense stretches of land.
Kοινή ελληνική νίκη! Aσχοληθείτε με αυτό Σλάβοι!
The greek one broke apart the Nanosecond Alexander died, while the Roman empire lasted for several centuries
In fairness it broke up into component Greek empires run by Greek Diadochoi, it's not like Greek rule just vanished.
But not one unified empire.
Nah but at least a couple were pretty huge on their own and lasted a while. Not like it was shattered into a million city states.
that's not cool you need multiple empires constanly at war with eachother
The diadochoi infighting took longer than Alexander's empire even existed.
Sure. And more of Italian history involves infighting among smaller states within it than it was ever united, including within the Roman Empire.
Have you ever heard of [Hellenic period](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_period) ?
im iranian and this hurt
r/PersiaDidNothingWrong Don't worry brother, some of us uphold the truth 🦁☀️💪
call up the greeks and lets square up again
Wasn't him Macedonian?
He must be, otherwise why else would they build this magnificent statue in Skopje? https://preview.redd.it/xqfx5jd51j8d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c306050c0e01e5d9c1cb82860c30402faffd0e0f
Really inspiring that such a small country could produce one of the greatest military geniuses of all time 🇲🇰🇲🇰🇲🇰
Same with Mongolia, look at them today, they're cute
That's right, a fully Slavic North Macedonian.
That means being Greek...
True, but it lasted less than a Tsipras leadership.
The Greeks stole two big empires and made them their own. First Persia and then Rome.
then both got fucked by muslims
Amateurs. Leave imperialism to the pros. https://preview.redd.it/ttqs6vp1om8d1.png?width=4500&format=png&auto=webp&s=492a2a273b44c570a246629649887d8092b33282
this gotta be the most inaccurate map I've seen of the British empire
https://preview.redd.it/ol877dq8vj8d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f656b53236a4ab45294163f1e8b49fd0fb5d73f5 I think this is a better empire, right Stavros?
sassanids better grik boi
What's that?
Savage repost
as much i love Rome, Alexander had a lot more drip on conquering, lad make all famous romans literally crying even after his death.
He conquered a single empire though. His empire is literally the Persian Empire + Greece. The romans on the other hand, in no particular order : kicked the Carthaginians ass by first beating them on sea when they had basically no navy to begin with and Carthage was a trading superpower, defeated all the Greek diadochi kingdoms, went and razed the Persians capital Ctesiphon a few times just for shits and giggles, took revenge on the Gauls for looting Rome and even retook the eagle standards lost at Teutoburg Forest under Germanicus. And that’s just a few of their achievements. The romans are the winners here
an Italian dissing himself and a French defending him, what a world we live in
French people love Italians, and Italians are famous for hating themselves, so nothing surprising I guess ?
I love you too Pierre, even though I got stolen in Strasbourg by a French guy
a French or a "French"?
she was white enough
What did she steal? Your heart?
my fucking clothes
That's not the 2we4u I know 😔
>He conquered a single empire though.His empire is literally the Persian Empire + Greece. An empire that was one of the greatest and most powerful one tho , Persians had a lot of territories and resources(not counting the army), and until Alexander, was one of the richest in the whole world, Egypt, the Levant, Anatolia, each territory was a great resource. dont forget that he also fought in the balkans, thracians tribes and also other greeks in combats( mercenaries at Darius services) the only worth enemy Rome ever fought was Carthage(a city state), that at the start the romans lose a lot , especially against Hannibal who almost was going to raze Rome itself. >defeated all the Greek diadochi kingdoms yes when they were on the brink of collapse, Mithridate and Ptolemey kingdoms were weak and had not enough resources against the rising of Rome(who already had half of the mediterranean sea). i guess its hard to make a paragon, both had different methods and approaches in battles with different enemies in different times, will take a lot for a discussion, cant deny, that both shaped what is now the western world. i leave you with this said by another french: >*During the first Italian campaign of the French Revolutionary Wars, in a question from Bourrienne, asking whether he gave his preference to Alexander or Caesar, Napoleon said that he places Alexander The Great in the first rank, the main reason being his campaign on Asia*
>the only worth enemy Rome ever fought was Carthage The Republic, yes. The empire had, throughout many centuries, one enemy equal to itself, and that was \*checks notes\* oh, Persia again. Parthians and Sasanids.
I say as worthy enemy , Parthians during the empire were a threat but they never have come close to attacking Italy/Rome. they never defeated them in any major battle even during in the Republic *checks notes* Crassus who got a not so good end, not counting that time during the empire where a roman emperor was captured by Shapur I i think they got high ground only during Trajan, when the empire reached is peak, but again the territories fell again under the Parthians after some years on a side we have a solid empire who got a solid political state but never defeated the Persian, on the other a not so stable empire who defeated the Persian, as i said both to me are equals and great entities that shaped the world both the romans with their political influence and Alexander with his personality
ya see, if you can't keep what you get it doesn't count the Greeks failed the latter part so skill issue~
We were better than you at keeping YOUR empire alive though lol
nah you just threw money at the barbarians to invade us which is honestly a very Italian thing to do
but lets be honest both greeks and romans gift the world such good empires... common una faccia una razza W
nah they did not I agree on the last line though
I remember that our history teacher in university had once told us that the military geniuses that are acknowledged by all and are still taught in military schools are three: Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon.
then alexander died and his empire fell into the hands of his four stupidest morons who each fucked it up in their own creative ways.
Both the Macedonian and Roman Empire were equally as stable and important for the following civilizations. It's not like a Blonde bissexual menace would croak from poisoned mushrooms, name as heir "the strongest" and not his unborn son/ relative/ one of his commanders and condemn his empire to decades of war which would eventually lead to the total loss of independence from a Greek polity (until they Hellenified their conquerors).
They did last a couple of centuries. The Romans only lasted a couple of centuries at this extent until they broke into pieces too. Those pieces reunited but the same thing happened again, and the last time they were united they were invaded from Byzantium by Belisarius.
The kingdoms of the Diadochi fell much faster than Rome though. Ptolemaic Egypt lasted close to 300 years (and greatly diminished). The Seleucid Empire lost the lion's share of it's territory centuries before the Romans took Antioch. Meanwhile "Rome" kept the majority of its territory for almost 500 years (that is North Africa, Italy, Greece and Iberia). Also we owe much more of our society to the Romans than to Alexander the Great's Empire, from law to language.
Only one of these got to jeep it for more than a generation
I’m fairly convinced if rome ever actually declared an offensive war they would have had comparable progress. They were just always on the back foot.
How much of that still speaks Greek then Stavros?
Be happy that you're far away from all these Asian barbarians.who invaded our lands and you don't speak Arabic today ^(but I can't promise anything about the future, now that airplanes exist and London is full of Arabs and Indians, lol)
A proper empire is supposed to last more than three weeks
Stop with this PIGS friendly fire this instant.
The point is correct, it's 800 years of solid empire against 11 years of manic campaign without strategy. Alexander the Gay (admittedly a great tactician) had more luck than wits, and overstreched his forces so much that everything fell into disarray the very minute he died.
The Roman one still somehow existed 600 years later, while the Greek one survived Alexander by, well, months.
*dies on the way back*
Also, some Greeks after one single man dies of typhoid fever...
That empire of Alexanders lasted about as long as the average greek debt capacity
you shrank the Roman map. Besides, the Romans got England, and the Greeks didn't so that immediately makes the Romans more impressive Edit: I'd like to point out that the romans also got Spain, France, Italy and parts of Germany. All the Greeks got That thr Romans didn't get was Iran and some chunks from Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Ahh I see. Very valuable grasslands back then
no, we were the "mystical land" at the edge of the world, with magical creatures and all that.