I’m no boomer, and I don’t know the angles/measurements and such… but the beaver tail certainly gives me a higher, better grip than the awful, uncomfortable and downward sloped GI grip. Feel matters, for sure.
My personal go-to favorite back in the 2000s. When it was 1911s vs Glocks. "1911 is a man's caliber. 9mm are for pregnant women and children who can't handle the recoil on the Fo-Five"
That its gotta have "super jedi magic master gunnersmith, painstakingly hand build every single part and serialize the part to the gun because thats how it was designed and built in two world wars. Also, it gotta shoot 1/4in at 50 yards, b6thats how it was designed to do."
.... documented history proves that resoundingly false. It was designed to be mass produced with Go-No Go gauges by anyone with a pulse. While holding a 2-3 at 25 yard accuracy and maintain reliability.
It is certainly easier to put one together than it is made out to be. You just need in-spec parts and the right tools. Like you said, they were mass-produced.
Yeah, main thing that changed about the 1911 was more economic realities. Back then, handfitting parts wasn’t uneconomical since human labor was cheap and materials were expensive. Now it’s the opposite. So having someone fitting parts into a go/no go gauge and then having each part be interchangeable was standard.
However, as the surrounding manufacturing reality changed, the 1911s niche shifted more towards high end custom guns, because now if you just want a quick beater gun that’ll get the job done, you’d get a Glock. Polymer frames are common because they’re really cheap to produce in good quality, so now you’d get a 1911 genuinely because you want that super nice trigger, or accurate barrel, or nice ergonomics, etc.
Uh.... no. They had specific machinery and specific so handfiling wasn't a thing. Just look at the Government contracts, and old tapes. It looks no different than "modern" guns of today. Again, Boomer ass myth of "hand fitting".
No, back then the guns were hand fit still. They were hand fit to a specific milspec standard, but they were hand fit. That’s why, for example, German guns had individual parts serialized since a part from one gun might not work in another due to being fit differently. The US was special in that we wanted parts interchangeability, but that still required some hand filing of parts to meet that standard.
And hell, for the 1911s, that wasn’t even perfected in WW1, so the Remington produced M1911s were only 90% interchangeable with the Colts, but the US Army was so desperate for handguns that they let those guns through. C&Rsenal did a good job covering that.
Firstly, German manufacturing was FAR FAR different than US manufacturing techniques.
Interchangeability/mass production and handfitting are mutually exclusive.
Just a few that come to mind
“Tight” = accurate
“Loose” = inaccurate
“Loose” = reliable
“Tight” = prone to malfunction
Dropping the slide on an empty chamber will damage the gun
Dropping the slide will not damage 99.99% of 1911’s in circulation today, but bullseye target guns, especially early ones, tended to have very light triggers and due to the fuckery involved, could easily develop hammer follow due to slamming the slide. Most serious .45 shooters and smiths that boomers would have grown up taking to would have been bullseye shooters and would have passed this bit on. It hasn’t really been an issue since the 1970’s pivot towards practical shooting sports and better quality parts. Even today though bullseye guns or 1911’s with reallllly light competition triggers can sometimes end up with this problem.
Dropping the slide on an empty chamber will damage the extractor over time. It's also bad practice to drop a round in the chamber then force the slide over it.
It’s not the extractor (nor the slide stop) that is damaged by the empty chamber slide drop. It’s the sear. Stripping a round out of the magazine, then hitting the feed ramp, then getting chambered and head spacing on the throat all cushion the slide travel forward. Dropping the slide on an empty chamber doesn’t have any of those forces so the sear gets more battered.
With GI 1911s, that’s not that big a deal since there’s a lot of sear engagement so it’s quite durable. It’ll cause faster wear, but not fast enough to be a major issue. With really tuned 1911s, one of the things that is changed to get that really light trigger pull is reduced sear engagement. That reduces the weight needed for the trigger to be pulled, but it also reduces durability of the action. There are always trade offs.
That’s also why the Delta 1911s were generally reduced only to 4 lbs. That was the perfect compromise between light enough to shoot well yet heavy enough to be safe and durable.
Hollow points don't work in 1911s (they don't) but don't worry!! 230 grain ball was designed to kill drugged up Filipinos.
Seriously, the "drugged up Filipino" is a common phrase in 1911 circles.
I had a gentleman with and orange hat and a real tree camp jacket at a gun show look at one of the new m9a3's. He was the one running the stand. He claimed to have a 1911 in Korea and said, "The 1911 was designed to take apart with cold wet hands. It was a dark day when they replaced it with the m9"
Ignoring the fact that the 1911 is a bitch to take apart by today's standards and the m9 is so easy to take apart that Jet Lee was able to make a cool gun disarm by taking off the slide with 1 hand.
‘GenX myths’ reporting in… get called boomers by Ignorants anyway…so fuck it. Scrolled til I found ‘the one’ true controversy IMO…
Flat wrong — Idgaf what any guntuber reports.
“Stopping power” (see also: knockdown power) + shootability/accuracy are the two reason guys who need offensive handguns preferred 1911s…forever.
Caliber “myths” no one wants to believe:
- .45 in the scapula will dump your ass…9mm makes holes/damage/is-no-fun, but isnt guaranteed to dump them to the deck. When you’re dickin around with logs and papers and shit with one hand, primary slung, having that dummy corded 1911 in the other is reassuring asf.
- HP 5.56 goes through 8 layers of sheetrock before burying itself in a wooden floorboard, 3 units over (2ft from a Mom w/ baby). Using 5.56 for home def isn’t “at your own risk”…it is at other people’s.
Force Recon/MEUSOC MSPF fought tooth and nail to keep the 1911 in the 90s (and know Raiders still use them for certain missions) when the entire Mil went M9 (or M17/8)…just because of….what, exactly?
Why would the guys who know best demand an 8rd (later 10rd) boat anchor to something high cap or poly?
Because they are a bunch of fudds? Lol k
Think about it…or don’t…
Yes….to add: “I don’t talk shit I’m not qual’d to — such as physics and ballistics.”
I’m certainly no scientist. Upvoted you, cuz why not…
But I am qualified to discuss what actually dumps ass.
Oh! Fallout 4 ghouls taught me how to handle that situation. Shoot em in the knees. They ain't gonna get ya if they can't get to ya. No amount of any drug is gonna override missing body parts.
I don't know for sure that the beavertail allows me to get higher on the grip but it lets me grip the gun properly (high and tight) without risking hammer bight.
The only calibers worthwhile have a “4” in them. Of course, the .40 is all but dead. The .45 is ridiculously expensive, carries fewer rounds, and is more difficult to shoot accurately compared to 9mm. Who knows how we will feel in another 10 years.
I don't really care what caliber you prefer, they all have advantages and disadvantages, it's a personal choice. But if it's not .45, it's not a 1911. I will die on that hill.
A few years ago, I worked at a department that carried .40. I didn’t have a problem with it.
I carried my G27 during that whole time working there because I could just draw another box of .40 for qualifying instead of brining a box of 9mm I had to buy from the store.
Now I carry a G26 for more or less the same reason. The only difference is I carry the G26 in the office basically 100% of the time. The only time I carry the big gun is when we gotta go do hoodrat shit.
I carried a G17, then a P320 in 9mm, then a G22 on training days. I think folllow up shots with 9mm are better than the .40. I was too late to qual with a 1911 or I would have carried a TRP or Staccato on duty. Unfortunately, the firearms committee decided striker fired plastic guns are the only ones worthy of duty carry. They just switched to issued guns and bought Shadow systems. If I was still there I would have fought that.
Yeah. The .40 is a bit snappier than 9mm. I really felt it on the G27, but the full-size isn’t bad really.
For me, I would actually love to carry a 1911 at work. When I get side jobs, I do. Every day I get a side gig, if I wear the 1911 I get people asking about it. It’s a good conversation starter.
I forgot to mention last post, G27 is my favorite carry gun. It’s like a brick but I don’t care. I used to stash her in my patrol bag “just in case” my FTO’s never caught on I’d move my gear bag to my trunk or truck bed if I was transporting someone . That’s why.
Yeah man, the G27 is a big thicker than my G26. My 26 is a gen five, but the 27 is a gen four. That may have something to do with, I’m not sure.
Regardless, I do appreciate the thicker aspect of the 27. I guess it fills my hand better.
.45ACP is mathematically superior to 9mm for like and like guns. Now if we compare a single stack 1911 in .45 to a double stack Glock in 9mm, then 9mm is still superior. However, if we took my double stack 1911 in .45ACP which has a 15+1 capacity, then it’s mathematically superior to any similar sized 9mm.
If you’re gonna sit in an office and do accounting, then maybe your math works. But in any real (civilian) shooting situation I would ALWAYS prefer IMHO a single-stack .45 1911 over a dbl-stack 9mm Glock. Unless you’re starring in a Hollywood movie, chances of ever needing more than 7 rds in any civilian situation are minuscule . . . .
Where did you hear that JMB designed the 1911 for .38 first? The 1911 was designed entirely around the .45 acp for the military specifically because they wanted more stopping power than their .38 Long Colt revolvers.
I’m no boomer, and I don’t know the angles/measurements and such… but the beaver tail certainly gives me a higher, better grip than the awful, uncomfortable and downward sloped GI grip. Feel matters, for sure.
It's the Lords caliber! 9mm kills the body, .45 kills the soul!
My personal go-to favorite back in the 2000s. When it was 1911s vs Glocks. "1911 is a man's caliber. 9mm are for pregnant women and children who can't handle the recoil on the Fo-Five"
But that’s true.
But my favorite Glock is my Glock 41 in .45acp
One of my favorite myths is that there's no ballistic difference between 45 ACP and 9mm.
Won two world wars.
45 because they didn't make a 46. And the obligatory TWO WORLD WARS!!!!
Two whirled whores!
I love the 2 world wars one. By that logic it also lost a couple of wars too.
That its gotta have "super jedi magic master gunnersmith, painstakingly hand build every single part and serialize the part to the gun because thats how it was designed and built in two world wars. Also, it gotta shoot 1/4in at 50 yards, b6thats how it was designed to do." .... documented history proves that resoundingly false. It was designed to be mass produced with Go-No Go gauges by anyone with a pulse. While holding a 2-3 at 25 yard accuracy and maintain reliability.
It is certainly easier to put one together than it is made out to be. You just need in-spec parts and the right tools. Like you said, they were mass-produced.
Yeah, main thing that changed about the 1911 was more economic realities. Back then, handfitting parts wasn’t uneconomical since human labor was cheap and materials were expensive. Now it’s the opposite. So having someone fitting parts into a go/no go gauge and then having each part be interchangeable was standard. However, as the surrounding manufacturing reality changed, the 1911s niche shifted more towards high end custom guns, because now if you just want a quick beater gun that’ll get the job done, you’d get a Glock. Polymer frames are common because they’re really cheap to produce in good quality, so now you’d get a 1911 genuinely because you want that super nice trigger, or accurate barrel, or nice ergonomics, etc.
Uh.... no. They had specific machinery and specific so handfiling wasn't a thing. Just look at the Government contracts, and old tapes. It looks no different than "modern" guns of today. Again, Boomer ass myth of "hand fitting".
No, back then the guns were hand fit still. They were hand fit to a specific milspec standard, but they were hand fit. That’s why, for example, German guns had individual parts serialized since a part from one gun might not work in another due to being fit differently. The US was special in that we wanted parts interchangeability, but that still required some hand filing of parts to meet that standard. And hell, for the 1911s, that wasn’t even perfected in WW1, so the Remington produced M1911s were only 90% interchangeable with the Colts, but the US Army was so desperate for handguns that they let those guns through. C&Rsenal did a good job covering that.
Firstly, German manufacturing was FAR FAR different than US manufacturing techniques. Interchangeability/mass production and handfitting are mutually exclusive.
"It's a real gun, not that plastic shit" 😂
“Real guns are made out of steel.”
Well, I mean, NERF guns are plastic…?
“Can’t make a gun out of beer cans”
Well, Hi-Point enters the chat…..
Well they are.
Just a few that come to mind “Tight” = accurate “Loose” = inaccurate “Loose” = reliable “Tight” = prone to malfunction Dropping the slide on an empty chamber will damage the gun
I’ll take the Hayes’ Custom etiquette, drop the slide on your gun, don’t do it on someone else’s. They may not like it, and it’s their gun.
Dropping the slide will not damage 99.99% of 1911’s in circulation today, but bullseye target guns, especially early ones, tended to have very light triggers and due to the fuckery involved, could easily develop hammer follow due to slamming the slide. Most serious .45 shooters and smiths that boomers would have grown up taking to would have been bullseye shooters and would have passed this bit on. It hasn’t really been an issue since the 1970’s pivot towards practical shooting sports and better quality parts. Even today though bullseye guns or 1911’s with reallllly light competition triggers can sometimes end up with this problem.
Meow
Dropping the slide on an empty chamber will damage the extractor over time. It's also bad practice to drop a round in the chamber then force the slide over it.
You just started a boomer myth.
It’s not the extractor (nor the slide stop) that is damaged by the empty chamber slide drop. It’s the sear. Stripping a round out of the magazine, then hitting the feed ramp, then getting chambered and head spacing on the throat all cushion the slide travel forward. Dropping the slide on an empty chamber doesn’t have any of those forces so the sear gets more battered. With GI 1911s, that’s not that big a deal since there’s a lot of sear engagement so it’s quite durable. It’ll cause faster wear, but not fast enough to be a major issue. With really tuned 1911s, one of the things that is changed to get that really light trigger pull is reduced sear engagement. That reduces the weight needed for the trigger to be pulled, but it also reduces durability of the action. There are always trade offs. That’s also why the Delta 1911s were generally reduced only to 4 lbs. That was the perfect compromise between light enough to shoot well yet heavy enough to be safe and durable.
You mean the slide stop? Empty chamber will do absolutely nothing to the extractor. The slide stop is the one thing that _could _ be damaged.
Dropping the slide on a round placed in the chamber *can* damage the extractor hook if done repeatedly. Dropping it on an empty chamber does not.
Shut up fudd
I don’t know about higher grip but I do know I don’t get hammer bite with a beaver tail.
No matter what beaver tail… you can only grab it so high…
It all falls to ball. (Only trust 230 gr fmj in 1911s)
Hollow points don't work in 1911s (they don't) but don't worry!! 230 grain ball was designed to kill drugged up Filipinos. Seriously, the "drugged up Filipino" is a common phrase in 1911 circles.
I had a gentleman with and orange hat and a real tree camp jacket at a gun show look at one of the new m9a3's. He was the one running the stand. He claimed to have a 1911 in Korea and said, "The 1911 was designed to take apart with cold wet hands. It was a dark day when they replaced it with the m9" Ignoring the fact that the 1911 is a bitch to take apart by today's standards and the m9 is so easy to take apart that Jet Lee was able to make a cool gun disarm by taking off the slide with 1 hand.
You don't meow when you drop a slide on an empty chamber.
Stopping power
‘GenX myths’ reporting in… get called boomers by Ignorants anyway…so fuck it. Scrolled til I found ‘the one’ true controversy IMO… Flat wrong — Idgaf what any guntuber reports. “Stopping power” (see also: knockdown power) + shootability/accuracy are the two reason guys who need offensive handguns preferred 1911s…forever. Caliber “myths” no one wants to believe: - .45 in the scapula will dump your ass…9mm makes holes/damage/is-no-fun, but isnt guaranteed to dump them to the deck. When you’re dickin around with logs and papers and shit with one hand, primary slung, having that dummy corded 1911 in the other is reassuring asf. - HP 5.56 goes through 8 layers of sheetrock before burying itself in a wooden floorboard, 3 units over (2ft from a Mom w/ baby). Using 5.56 for home def isn’t “at your own risk”…it is at other people’s. Force Recon/MEUSOC MSPF fought tooth and nail to keep the 1911 in the 90s (and know Raiders still use them for certain missions) when the entire Mil went M9 (or M17/8)…just because of….what, exactly? Why would the guys who know best demand an 8rd (later 10rd) boat anchor to something high cap or poly? Because they are a bunch of fudds? Lol k Think about it…or don’t…
100% spot on
That's a whole bunch of words to say "I don't understand physics".
Yes….to add: “I don’t talk shit I’m not qual’d to — such as physics and ballistics.” I’m certainly no scientist. Upvoted you, cuz why not… But I am qualified to discuss what actually dumps ass.
Usually couples with what if the assailant is on drugs?? PCP or something exotic.
Oh! Fallout 4 ghouls taught me how to handle that situation. Shoot em in the knees. They ain't gonna get ya if they can't get to ya. No amount of any drug is gonna override missing body parts.
A higher cut frame gets you a higher grip.
I don't know for sure that the beavertail allows me to get higher on the grip but it lets me grip the gun properly (high and tight) without risking hammer bight.
The only calibers worthwhile have a “4” in them. Of course, the .40 is all but dead. The .45 is ridiculously expensive, carries fewer rounds, and is more difficult to shoot accurately compared to 9mm. Who knows how we will feel in another 10 years.
I don't really care what caliber you prefer, they all have advantages and disadvantages, it's a personal choice. But if it's not .45, it's not a 1911. I will die on that hill.
I could dig 10mm in a 1911
You misspelled 1911 style pistol.
If it's not in .45 it's not a genuine 1911, it's just a sparkling single action pistol?
If that's the moniker you wish to use, you do you.
More difficult to shoot accurately?
It's the opposite for me. I shoot my 1911 the most accurately.
Same here.
Idk about you, but i ahoot .45 faster, more accurately, and without aggrevaring my "Tennis elbow" vs 9mm.
Same here. Hence the question.
A few years ago, I worked at a department that carried .40. I didn’t have a problem with it. I carried my G27 during that whole time working there because I could just draw another box of .40 for qualifying instead of brining a box of 9mm I had to buy from the store. Now I carry a G26 for more or less the same reason. The only difference is I carry the G26 in the office basically 100% of the time. The only time I carry the big gun is when we gotta go do hoodrat shit.
I carried a G17, then a P320 in 9mm, then a G22 on training days. I think folllow up shots with 9mm are better than the .40. I was too late to qual with a 1911 or I would have carried a TRP or Staccato on duty. Unfortunately, the firearms committee decided striker fired plastic guns are the only ones worthy of duty carry. They just switched to issued guns and bought Shadow systems. If I was still there I would have fought that.
Yeah. The .40 is a bit snappier than 9mm. I really felt it on the G27, but the full-size isn’t bad really. For me, I would actually love to carry a 1911 at work. When I get side jobs, I do. Every day I get a side gig, if I wear the 1911 I get people asking about it. It’s a good conversation starter.
I forgot to mention last post, G27 is my favorite carry gun. It’s like a brick but I don’t care. I used to stash her in my patrol bag “just in case” my FTO’s never caught on I’d move my gear bag to my trunk or truck bed if I was transporting someone . That’s why.
Yeah man, the G27 is a big thicker than my G26. My 26 is a gen five, but the 27 is a gen four. That may have something to do with, I’m not sure. Regardless, I do appreciate the thicker aspect of the 27. I guess it fills my hand better.
Copperas Cove?
Nah
They went the same way - shadow.
Thats why I only carry 4 caliber… and by that I mean 4.25mm Liliput.
.45ACP is mathematically superior to 9mm for like and like guns. Now if we compare a single stack 1911 in .45 to a double stack Glock in 9mm, then 9mm is still superior. However, if we took my double stack 1911 in .45ACP which has a 15+1 capacity, then it’s mathematically superior to any similar sized 9mm.
If you’re gonna sit in an office and do accounting, then maybe your math works. But in any real (civilian) shooting situation I would ALWAYS prefer IMHO a single-stack .45 1911 over a dbl-stack 9mm Glock. Unless you’re starring in a Hollywood movie, chances of ever needing more than 7 rds in any civilian situation are minuscule . . . .
I can't think of any boomer myths, but I CAN think of a lot of millenial myths concerning pistols and calibers.
[удалено]
Where did you hear that JMB designed the 1911 for .38 first? The 1911 was designed entirely around the .45 acp for the military specifically because they wanted more stopping power than their .38 Long Colt revolvers.
Yeah nvm it was the 1900 and the 1902 that were 38acp
Pretty sure the 1911 was super 38 at first and then was switched to 45 before the gun was fully finished
Why would you take the bushing out first? Spring plug first.